Whoops, I didn't mean to make it sounds like the helicopters' presence is somehow worse than the deaths themselves. Of course that's not the case. They are (noisily and obnoxiously) adding insult to injury, that's what they're doing.

I don't get it either. It's hard to fathom what the purpose of hovering over a train wreck is. They woke me up Wednesday morning right after the incident occured and as far as I can tell they have been hovering ever since. They were there when I went to sleep and still there when I woke up this morning.

I would understand if they were some kind of paramedic rescue mission but I sense that's not the case. Perhaps we'll have to wait until a high speed car chase lures them away.

Anyone have an idea on how to address this?

My guess is they won't leave until someone uses them for target practice, and given the number of locos with guns in this neighborhood, it may be just a matter of time!

Call every local news station with a helicopter and complain to them! Call everytime you hear them zooming back in or hovering! The more we complain -- and the more of us that complain, the better the chances they go away.

I've complained to the local TV stations a number of times and it it seems to do no good. Still, I agree it is worth the barrage of calls to them to at least make our voices heard.

I think they see it as their right to cover the news as they see fit and in LA "fit" apparently = helicopters. As a news person myself I believe the community's right to sleep and be free of hovering copters trumps the news organization's rights, but... LA TV stations are not in the news business, they are in the sensationalist business of driving ratings.

Perhaps we could invite some of the news people to one of the AVNC meetings and have them explain their behavior and tell them firsthand how it harms the quality of life across LA?

WHY are helicopters used in our neighborhood like this, as opposed to other places across the country? I swear, in NY and DC I never had these problems. I woke up at 5 AM this morning to the sound of heavy machinery and helicopters - already. And when I got home last night at 11 pm from a late night at work, they were up there for the 11 o'clock "live shot" broadcast. What do they even expect to SEE that's new?

The news channels are plainly abusing their newsgathering privileges. I am sure no local politican will want to call them out on that -- politicians are usually afraid of taking on a local media outlet publicly. So, we need to challenge or revoke the TV station' privileges themselves. Or, perhaps, we could campaign for a new, citywide rule governing helicopter nuisance.

I am glad to see this topic on the forum as it has been a concern for a long time and has been exacerbated by the tragedy that occurred in our neighborhood this week. At times, it seems like the helicopters are directly over my home and this is not only a noise nuisance but a safety concern.

I telephoned the police and was told that there is no limitation on when the helicopters can be out using the airspace above our homes. The choppers seem to go away around 11:30pm when the local "news" finishes up.

The airlines and airports have very strict limitations on use of airspace. I would think that similar time and place restrictions would be appropriate for helicopters. I suspect it is governed by federal aviation laws and regs.

I am surprised the stations would lurk around with more than one helicopter. they do share footage between each other in many cases, like when someone needs to go and refuel. if you do wish to complain (can't blame you, the as350 is a pretty loud turbine), be sure to call group three aviation at van nuys airport as well as air traffic control there just as the tv stations. let them know you're mentioning their names as well. your complaints threaten their income, so they might listen to you more than the station managers.

rob force: I wouldn't call hovering a safety concern. helicopters are able to 'glide' down to earth upon a power loss. the procedure is called autorotation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorotation

Thank you krautland. Having just seen "Life Aquatic", I had a different perception of helicopter safety. I guess I feel a little less unsafe now.

Krautland: If you look at the website for the Van Nuys airport --

http://www.lawa.org/vny/vnyNoiseRestriction.cfm

-- you will see that there are NO restrictions on helicopters.

My conclusion is that there is a gap in city/county law regarding newsgathering by helicopter that needs to be closed.

In the meantime, we seen to have zero legal recourse to end the helicopter noise. This is, of course, extremely frustrating. Once again, giant media corporations have the upper hand and, having no sense of decency or propriety, are abusing it. It's shameful and outrageous.

jay: faa rules require a minimum altitude of 500 feet to be kept at all times. I am not sure if the LAPD helos are exempt (I am not a commercial pilot) but they don't hover anyway. if the newschoppers break that rule, you have them by the balls - and rightfully so, hovering a single engine helo like the astar that low over urban terrain is reckless. (they should be well clear of the 500 mark, this is the absolute minimum)

but as to the number of helos in the unrestricted airspace that area is - they are legally in the clear here. but every operator needs a license and they are very concerned about it. I used to fly out of long beach and the operator made me swear on my mothers life I wouldn't go over the cruise ships cause they always complained. I am also being told that the lapd doesn't fly in and out of there downtown pad over a certain eagle rock area any more due to the numerous complaints they received. even if these are the news- and not the police choppers, you could give the LAPD air support a call, their no is (213) 485-2600 (ask for the watch commander), I'm sure they know who to get in touch with.

The helicopers do follow the federal aviation guidelines. I believe they are not allowed to fly lower than 1000 feet (or high enough to be in the air traffic pattern) That specific height number may have changed, but freedom of the press means they can photograph anything from that height. Residents of the hills, south central, celebrity weddings, etc. have all complained about this problem. The good news, they will move on as soon as the spectacular aspects of the crash are gone. AVNC has no jurisdiction over the federal aviation guidelines.

As special note of thanks needs to go to the community members who pitched in during this tragedy. New Hope Church needs to be thanked for signing the permission for government helicopters to land on their site for official government business, and Costco employees need to be praised for their efforts to help out with water, carts, and tents for the triage area. Our emergency responders were there in force quickly moving the injured to hospitals and protecting us all against further problems.

A few years back the railroad tried to close all the crossings in North Atwater Village to prevent problems like this. I would expect those requests to be coming up again. We will need community input on the traffic effect of closing any streets. Building another underpass would be very expensive, but would prevent this sort of thing from ever happening again in our neighborhood.

Jeff -- The guidelines they are operating under are inappropriate. I cannot measure what height they are at: if they go below 1000 feet, or 500 feet, how am I to know? How do I prove it to anyone? These rules are unenforceable. Freedom of the press, as far as I know, does not necessarily mean that you have the right to hover continuously over someone's home until you decide to move elsewhere. This is clearly an abuse of privilege by sensation-seeking corporate media outlets for the sake of profit: nothing less. Don't apologize for it, please.

Can we please have some peace? Something undeniably horrific has happened here, in our backyards. This is a time when we need silence more than anything, if only out of respect for the dead and injured, and all the others here who have been affected. Is that really so much to ask? Where are our neighborhood church leaders? Where is the Councilman? Where is the Congressman?

After speaking with the LAPD air support, I called the FAA at 310.725.3300. The helpful gentleman there said that they are getting a number of complaints about newscopters in this situation, but that the helicopters are allowed to fly at any level as long as the pilot believes they are safe; they can, in fact fly at 10 feet off the ground. I asked if helicopters are allowed to hover continuously above my house until the end of time. The officer said hovering is a different issue, and he didn't know the answer on that. He referred me to the LA Flight Standards office at 310-215-2150 and advised me to press "o" if I got an answering machine. I got the answer machine, dialed zero, spoke with an operator, asked for a helicopter operations officer, and was passed to ext. 144, where there was an out-of-date voicemail. I did not leave a message, but will try again later.

We are in regular contact with the folks at FAA as well, and we wish we could make city law governing this, but the FAA trumps us. A great resource for the community, though is Sgt Holbrook, of the Air Support Division of the LAPD. He is very accessible and full of info about air traffic and specifically Helicopter issues. You can call him anytime for info at 213.485.2011.

Eric Garcetti

Closing the RR crossings in North Atwater sounds like a realistic solution to solving the real safety issues that still exist and have still not been addressed.

Does a survey need to be conducted? Or how else would that information and input be gathered from the neighborhood residents and be passed on to the RR and the City? Prevention makes the most sense since there's already resistance (financially) to having enough police patrol in the area to prevent an event like this from happening again.

And come to think of it, that's how the safety problem was addressed in Burbank. They closed off the streets that crossed over the RR tracks. (Think along Scott Road near the I-5 freeway)

I don't think closing rail crossings is a viable solution. Being able to use the Brunswick to Chevy Chase route to get to Glendale (on a Saturday when Los Feliz is hell) is a good thing. The odds of something like this happening again are terribly slim. When was the last time someone drove their car on tracks to kill themselves? Usually its a-holes who try and 'beat' a train and go around the guard rails. That can be alleviated by using a double arm guard rail type system. I respect and understand the human need to legislate after such events as grand as this, but that often stems from emotion and not a logical standpoint. As far as I know, there is only the one aforementioned crossing in Atwater, yes?


Also, gathering news is a protected right, not a privilige. While the vultures are annoying and their brand of news questionable, Id rather have them then not. You know? Having lived in the flight path of a major international airport, noise abbatement is an issue that can be addressed on a city level is not Mr. Garcetti? I know certain cities have specific requirements for incoming and out going traffic at airports. Can similar restrictions not be placed on other private aircraft, be they news or otherwise (gov't, police exempt?)?

While a free press is a right, the methods used to gather the news aren't always protected. An extreme example: the press can't invade my home to get a story.

In Los Angeles in particular the television news media has dropped all pretense of acting as good citizens.

And again I say this as a news person myself -- there should be serious restrictions on helicopters and how they are used to gather news. Pool coverage is used in many other cases, why not in LA?

Ultimately the only case to be made is either to the FAA (laws) or the organizations themselves (voluntary restrictions). But I seriously doubt any local TV station news director gives a damn what impact their helicopters have on the neighborhoods of LA.

I do think the LA City Council could hold hearings and air the issue out. Not so much to create a law (that's the Feds), but to hear about the impact this has on the people who have to deal with it. Maybe then the local TV goons would listen.

The idea that a swarm of heavy machinery helicopters should be allowed to hover over an area without any restriction, until the end of time, at a height of their discretion, is preposterous.

I agree with Rich. Pool coverage seems to be the best solution. A legal limit on the number of helicopters within a certain radius -- and the duration that they can be there -- should be set: that way the media can get their precious aerial images and the rest of us can be free of the kind of assault we experienced last week.

jay im pretty sure no one has suggested that they be allowed to do as such.

my comment was merely to say simply saying local news networks can't have helicopter coverage and well thats ok anyway because their news is really news and well therefor they arent covered under the free speech guidlines of this country wasnt really valid. there were allusions to selective enforcement in previous posts.

certainly their brand of news and methods of coverage arent desireable by many. but then again, somebody is watching that crap.

ok. so who enforces these limits placed on helicopters? does it cover only news helicopters? ok, so then can the news agencies hire private contract pilots to do their coverage to get around that? because we all know, exclusivity = ratings and ratings = ads and well, we are all trying to make a living right? ok, so would enforcement require money? more air traffic control staff? all so we can live peacefully in a major metropolis where news inevitiably happens more frequently?

(playing mostly devils advocate)

patrickm: The situation I described is what the current law and enforecement standards allow helicopters to do, according to the FAA guy I spoke to last week.

Its not going to stop unless someone decides to dedicate 5 years to the cause.

It's 2:40 am. I have been up since 2 am LISTENING TO THE HELOS IMMEDIATELY OVER MY APARTMENT swooping around. Over and over and over.. this is so insane - and I can't even find out WHY they are up there or what to do about it!!! GAAH!!!

The helo on Feb 4th, and the multitude of cops and cop cars was due to:

http://www.atwatervillage.org/forum/threads.php?id=386_0_10_0_C

thank you for the update.